JOHN WHITE
- Restorative Justice -
G'day folks,
Today I interview another multi-talented and inspiring Australian with a great sense of purpose and vision for those in need - John White. John and I have become good friends, and I particularly admire his work in restorative justice. He is one hellova an interesting bloke to chat with. Mind you, he and his wife, Jenny, own a magnificent property they have developed in Western Australia - Magpie Ridge; a beautiful, tranquil, 60 hectare property 9 kilometres west of the
village of Toodyay in Western Australia’s Avon Valley, and about an
hour's drive from Perth. Once part of an old and degraded sheep farm,
Magpie Ridge is now largely reafforested and restored to use as both
‘land for wildlife’, peaceful retreats for singles and couples, and
production of premium quality extra virgin olive oil.
Welcome, John ...
TELL
US A LITTLE ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR PROFESSIONAL JOURNEY.
I was born into a
farming family in 1948 in a little wheatbelt town in WA. At age 3 moved south
to Mt Barker with parents where Dad worked developing farms for returned
servicemen, and developed his own little farm in his spare time. Had a great
life as a kid growing up in the bush. Became a high school dropout at 16,
worked seasonal jobs including apple packing, tractor driving, rouseabout, wool
presser, wool classer, shearer, piano player in a dance band, night club singer
and DJ to mention a few. My professional journey began when there was a
significant downturn in the wool industry and I went to city to retrain as an
Industrial Arts High School Teacher. Whilst teaching I became aware of the
needs of non-academic and troubled kids, and moved from the classroom to
Outdoor and Vocational Education. I also
trained as a therapist because these kids were coming to me for help and I
didn’t have a clue what to do. After 12 years in the education system I moved
into practising psychotherapy full time with a church agency and, later, in
private practice combined with contract work with a couple of local NGO’s.
WHEN
AND HOW DID YOU BECOME INVOLVED IN YOUR CURRENT JOB?
For the last 5 years I’ve been working part-time – still in
the wheatbelt – as a Resilience Support Officer. It was a natural transition
from straight ‘counselling’ as there are gaps in services in rural and remote
areas that need to be filled by generalists. In the preceding 8 years in the
area I had become well known in the ‘industry’ and the move was sideways and
onward.
WHAT’S
INVOLVED IN YOUR JOB?
I offer a free, mobile counselling service (Government
funded) around the Central Wheatbelt – an area of 110,000 square kilometres –
visiting folk who are struggling with pressures of life in the bush. There are
unique challenges out here. Isolation, absence of services most Australians
take for granted, seasonal uncertainties, no control over prices of produce or
input costs, financial hardship and the usual stresses of relationships and
simply being human. Most times I drive. But, to some outlying areas, I fly a
light aircraft on my rounds. (When I was 21 I spent every cent I had ($800) and
qualified as a Private Pilot. Been flying ever since).
One of my other passions is voluntarily facilitating
restorative justice programmes with inmates and victims of crime in a couple of
our state prisons.
WHAT’S
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE?
Our present so-called ‘justice system’ is, simply,
retributive; it’s not just at all. It asks three questions: which one of our
laws was broken, who is guilty, and how much shall we punish them?
Restorative Justice – true justice – asks three different
questions: Who or what has been hurt or damaged, what healing and repair is
required, and how will we, the community, provide that? I am all for the latter. It is wisdom, it is
just, it is compassionate, it is fair and honourable to everyone, it heals and
restores all involved in a destructive event, and it costs a fraction of what
we spend on retribution. Restorative justice doesn’t blame, judge and condemn.
Nor does it minimise the damage caused by destructive behaviours. It requires
offenders to fully accept responsibility for their actions and do whatever is
in their power to fix what they broke, pay back what they took away, heal what
they damaged and, as far as is possible, reconcile and bring together what has
been disintegrated. Of course, ideally it requires people who have been hurt by
crime to make some of those actions possible. But, even if ‘victims’ refuse to
be involved (as most do, sadly and to their ongoing suffering), ‘offenders’ are
able to effect restoration within the limits of their opportunity and
resources.
Magpie Ridge
WHAT
DO YOU ENJOY MOST ABOUT YOUR WORK?
I enjoy engaging with people in activities of the heart,
soul, mind and body in order to create abundance in our human experience: joy, peace, contentment, oneness with all
that is, healing, creativity, meaningfulness in life and relationships,
progressing towards the fullness of our unique potential as individuals and
members of our communities. Psychotherapy, at its deepest level, is ‘healing of
the psyche /spirit / soul / essence of our humanity’. Of course, as you would
imagine, I’ve had some argument with the ‘therapeutic’ community from time to
time, many of whom have no real experience of the ‘mystery’ of our essential
nature as human beings, preferring to remain in the illusory ‘safety’ of the
ego – intellect and, thereby, missing the boat. I don’t enjoy that our humanity
has been medicalised by much of the psychological / psychiatric / medical community.
I do enjoy engaging in real time, with the real person – the ‘soul/ spirit’ –
on the real issues of life, ie, true self-worth / self- acceptance (NOT
self-esteem – that’s about ego and won’t take us anywhere useful), oneness,
meaningfulness, love, seeking truth, wisdom, compassion, humility – all the
things that deep in our hearts we all desire and that actually make life work!
I enjoy this kind of engagement equally in both paid and unpaid work.
WHAT
IS THE HARDEST THING ABOUT YOUR JOB?
The hardest thing about my job is assisting people to
realize the need to unlearn their learning and step beyond the so-called
‘normal’ way to be, ie, attached, dependent, stuck in body, mind and ego only,
desiring ‘stuff’, working to ‘achieve / acquire / accumulate / impress’ / etc.
Anthony de Mello was right; most people don’t seem to want to ‘wake up’ and
actually live. I feel frustration and sadness about that.
WHAT
WERE YOU IN A PAST LIFE?
I’m not sure about the whole past life thing. I don’t
know if there is such a phenomenon. I do believe that we are eternal spirit,
never born and never dying but, as for how that spirit is deployed, I’ll leave
that up to the One who owns the game. I don’t think it matters that we know
about such things; what does matter is that we live each breath and each moment
of our lives as if they are the most precious gifts possible.
WHAT
INSPIRED YOU TO BE WHERE YOU ARE NOW?
That is a broad question. Where I am geographically was
inspired by a desire to heal a piece of land, replant much of it to natural
eucalypt forest, build a comfortable home from natural and recycled materials
(straw bales, bush poles, and recycled almost everything else), welcome people
in any kind of need of retreat and healing, grow and produce organic olives and
olive oil. We’ve done that.
Where I am spiritually / philosophically was inspired my
many people over many decades – some known to me as personal mentors and
friends, many unknown to me who were seekers and writers of the great classics.
The list of those is long, features the
‘gurus’ of the past several thousand years, and embraces true seekers of all
religious persuasions. Their inspiration has led me to seek and practise being
‘present’ to each moment. I’m not very good at it, but am committed to the
practice, firmly believing it to be THE way to contentment, peace, abundant
life and hope for the world.
WHAT
IS YOUR GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT?
A colleague in the restorative justice work said that my
involvement in RJ was probably my greatest achievement. I think that’s probably
true. Of course, under that ‘achievement’ is a gift I received in the form of
an ‘inner prompting’ to seek truth, justice, compassion, Reality. So, my
greatest ‘achievement’ was to say ‘yes’ to that inner prompting and continue to
follow to this day.
WHAT
ARE YOU WORKING ON AT THE MOMENT?
I’ve got a few things on the go. I’ve started two more non-fiction
books that I hope to finish sometime. As with my first book, ‘No Bars Hold’, both
are to do with being fully alive and free from the effects of the externals
life throws at us. I would also like to record about 3 albums of songs I’ve
written over the years. I’m also tweaking our new website (www.magpieridge.com)
and planning to put some downloads on it that people may be interested in. The
big project of the moment is to sell the farm and locate and purchase a yacht
that Jenny and I can live aboard for some months each year. We’re feeling the
need for being near water for the next bit of our lives. We’ve done some
sailing in the Med with friends and I did some ocean racing decades ago.
Hearing the call to head that way again.
WHAT
INSPIRES YOU?
People who live lives outside the mindless box in which
so-called ‘civilised’ society has encouraged and coerced us to bury ourselves.
Modern high profile people like Mother Theresa, Gandhi, and Mandela, together
with the ‘no-profile’ little people bravely living their everyday lives,
unnoticed, unsung, but in loving service to other human beings and to the
fragile planet we call home. I am also hugely inspired by the ‘mystics’ of all
persuasions, the central Truths evident in all mainstream religion and
philosophy, by the faces and innocence of children, the acceptance by most
dogs, the night sky, and the whole, amazing world and universe of beauty and
wonder.
WHAT
IS YOUR GREATEST JOY IN YOUR WORK?
Experiencing people ‘waking up’ – becoming aware - ,
breaking free from destructive patterns of thought and behaviour, and getting
their own, unique, real life of simplicity, joy and contentment.
WHO
IS YOUR FAVOURITE AUTHOR AND WHY?
I don’t have a single standout favourite. And most of my
favourites write non-fiction and from the Christian and Zen mystical
traditions. Many of them wrote many centuries ago, part of the great awakenings
of mysticism. They include the Syrian Desert Fathers and Mothers of 6th
Century, and later Europe’s Theresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Bernard of
Clairvaux, Jean Pierre de Caussade, Meister Eckhart and others and, more
recently, William Johnson, Lawrence Freeman, Kahlil Gibran, Anthony deMello,
Richard Rohr, Eckhart Tolle. All those are in the Christian tradition. Perhaps
my favourite Buddhist writer at present is Thich Nhat Hanh, a Vietnamese monk,
teacher and peace activist during the Vietnam War. Why are they my favourites?
Because they are in general agreement about the central issues of being human
and, as they have lived what they teach, they are trustworthy signposts and
guides on the path to life; they feed my soul with Universal Truth and hope of
becoming fully who I am designed to be.
WHAT’S
THE GREATEST COMPLIMENT YOU EVER RECEIVED FROM A CLIENT?
One or two Vietnam Vets said ‘you saved my life’.
WHAT
WAS THE WORST COMMENT?
I can’t remember a ‘worst’ comment. Perhaps I’m in denial
or have conveniently erased it. I really can’t think of one.
OTHER
THAN YOUR WORK, WHAT ELSE DO YOU LOVE?
I love my wife, kids and grandsons, riding motor bikes,
flying aeroplanes, sailing yachts, the beach, the desert, playing guitar and
piano, writing songs, travelling, drinking home-made whiskey and beer, silence,
stillness, reading, meditation, company of ‘like souls’, magpie song,
camp-fires, memory of 5 Italian girls picking olives.
DESCRIBE
YOUR PERFECT DAY.
Not being required or asked to do anything for anyone.
IF
YOU WERE STUCK ON A DESERT ISLAND WITH ONE PERSON, WHO WOULD IT BE? WHY?
I’m pretty sure I’d like it to be a physically attractive,
spiritually connected, mature, capable, intelligent female who knows who she
is, is not needy, is comfortable in her own skin, and enjoys a balance of
company and solitude. I haven’t met many like her. She may be an illusion…
WHAT
WOULD YOU SAY IF YOU HAD THE CHANCE TO SPEAK TO WORLD LEADERS?
Please wake up and see that we are one nation on this
planet, nation-states are arbitrary and destructive divisions, all the
resources of the earth belong to us all to be shared as any has need, that the
intellect is to be subservient to the heart and soul, that money is a slave not
a master, that violence only ever produces violence, that love is stronger than
fear, that you get rid of enemies by making them friends.
WHAT
ARE YOUR PLANS FOR THE FUTURE?
Keep breathing one breath at a time and being aware in
each moment, do less, ‘be’ more, love, give what I am able to that is
life-giving in any way, sail some oceans, read, meditate, be still and content
with whatever is my ‘content’ at any given time.
WHAT
FIVE BOOKS WOULD YOU TAKE TO YOUR GRAVE?
Not meaning to be flippant but I don’t plan to read in my
grave. I’d rather leave in the world the book of ‘a life lived reasonably
well’.
WHAT’S
THE FUNNIEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO YOU?
I was teaching a pretty young girl to water ski. We had a
long ‘bar’ that we were both hanging onto. I was responsible to get myself out
of the water and virtually ‘lift’ her out by lifting the bar she was hanging
onto. All she had to do was keep her skis basically straight. While the boat
was dragging us through the water to pick up ski speed, the water washed my
willie out the leg of my bathers. Fortunately she was focussed on what she was
doing and I was able to rectify the matter without ‘grossing her out’.
ANYTHING
YOU’D LIKE TO ADD?
Looking back at the volume of words I’ve written, I’m in
a bit of conflict with my Confucian belief that ‘he who speaks doesn’t know; he
who knows doesn’t speak’. So, no; nothing to add…
WHO
DO YOU ADMIRE MOST?
I admire those who peacefully and courageously absorb
wounds they receive rather than seeking revenge, those who prefer stillness and
silence to constant activity and noise, those who see themselves as one with
the Oneness of the universe and steadfastly care for it as best they can.
WHAT
ARE YOUR BIGGEST FRUSTRATIONS?
People who whinge, blame, criticise, judge, condemn, make
excuses for themselves, don’t accept full personal responsibility for their actions,
expect others to make their lives work for them, and the world to give them a
living. And, of course, I am frustrated with myself when I am guilty of the
above immature behaviours.
IF
YOU HAD THE CHANCE TO CHANGE ONE THING IN THE WORLD, WHAT WOULD IT BE?
It would be to have all leaders realize that they are prime-servants
and lovers of the people and planet and not masters and abusers. If I could
change two things, I’d also ban temperatures above 35 degrees…
WEBSITE: http://www.magpieridge.com/
PS: John is the author of a book entitled, 'No Bars Hold', which is available in paperback, hardcover or as Kindle. It is a worthwhile read:
PSS: 'Magpie Ridge' is also for sale.
Check it out:
Check it out:
Clancy's comment: I forgot to mention that John has CD's of his music available. Just send him an email. Thanks for sparing the time for this interview, John. Keep going, mate. Have a few whiskeys for me ... and then some.
Love ya work!
I'm ...
Think about this!
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